Panel: Palin abused power in trooper case

[Cheese]

I do not think we know much about Obama's brother's motivations for "living in third-world poverty," and I do not think any conclusions can be reached regarding this. Just like it is not fair to reach any conclusions regarding Palin's under-age daughter's pregnancy or Bush's nieces' drug problems, etc.

I can understand an argument that the President needs to surround himself with people he can trust and work with. I can even understand that a governor would need to do the same. How was the role of the trooper directly material to the governor's job???

I do not claim to know what goes on in the minds of other people. This is why the Troopergate issue is so relevant. Fortunately, it came up before we all have a chance to go to the voting booths. This coupled with the fact that she stated she "...is thankful that the Constitution provides flexibility for the role of the VP" is quite concerning! Lets not forget that this is someone who could become President, though will not respond to questions!!!!!!!

I tried my best to not have any straight talk references (it is getting old), however, it is time.
"She might be the possibility (for the first time since Ross Perot) of fulfilling a promise hinted at in the constitution...that the American government can and should be "by the people," and not at the hands of career politicians."

Dude, I do not think we are ready for the 'American government can and should be "by the people"' if our option is someone who is uneducated, without an understanding of world politics or even the history of our nation. She may not be a good speaker and I would like to point out that Bush was also not a good speaker when he ran against Gore and Kerry. I think we already learned from that experiment.

[eponym]

Ever notice when we debate these things everyone else usually gets REALLY quiet? Can almost hear crickets chirping.

I don't think the personal attack stuff is as relevant, thought I do think as far as that stuff's concerned, as political weaponry, Obama's brother trumps a teen pregnancy, drug problem, extra-marital affair etc...I don't think the guy has any "motivations" for living in a hut, beyond the fact his brother in America doesn't give a shit about him.

And I think you went to the heart of Troopergate by asking the cop's relevancy to Palin's job. I was reading another Troopergate attack piece in Newsweek last night and it occured to me: the trooper's relevancy in the whole thing was probably minimal at best. Yes, her husband may have imposed himself into her job (I doubt that as president Palin would go so far as to put him in charge of health care, however) and, yes, there may have been a point when she/he expressed personal concerns over the trooper's professional behavior. Beyond that, all that remains are carefully worded accusations from a guy who lost his job.

I suspect it's something like this, and nobody but Palin, her husband and this Monegan guy know for sure: After getting fired, Monegan took what dirt he had on the Palins and ran with it. "They tried to get that brother-in-law fired" he remembered, and went to the press. It's like someone claiming their boss fired them because they knew he/she was taking home pens from the office.

Another interesting factoid I picked up from the Newsweek article: After being elected, Palin scaled down the Governor's security detail to save tax-payer money, which, according to some, made her "fear" the trooper.

Two things:

1. The "official" investigator has stated he does not believe fear was a factor.

2. Did they just unwittingly inform people that Palin scaled down her personal security guards to save taxpayers money? The same woman they're practically accusing themselves of an "ethics" violation?

Also worthy of noting is that the legislature conducting the investigation has no authority to sanction Palin, as Governor, for anything. The decision would be that of a state personnel board, which is currently running an "official" investigation that Palin and her husband are both cooperating with. It seems even the anti-Palin news coverage can't help poking holes in their own Troopergate stories.

[eponym]

And how in the HELL did the mainstream media get away with avoiding this story?

http://cranialrectalresearch.wordpre...ld-kid-lately/

Posted by Olemite
Please remember that when listening to debates about troopergate.
Wooten is the trooper that got fired, and Palin seems to be under
scrutiny from the democrats because of his firing. Personally, I
think she could get an award.

Also note how the article talks about the Palin family abusing the
children by disparaging the trooper in front of him. What does that
even mean? There was only one line about this nutcase trooper that
tasered his own stepson.

This also raises an interesting question about government positions.
If you have personal knowledge that a state trooper is a nutcase,
should you be able to use that personal knowledge and your position of
power to get that person fired, and save others from abuse? If you
ask me, if you're stupid enough to taser the governor's nephew, you
should resign that night, and crawl into a hole somewhere to live with
others like yourself. Instead, the democrats will give this guy fame.

[Cheese]

Obama's brother "trumps" a teen pregnancy or a drug problem? These are the very things at the core of the conservative base of the Republican party. It is a perfect example of the hypocrisy of the Republican political machine. They preach their values and righteous beliefs and then embrace one of their own for falling down. I am talking about Palin's daughter in this example.
Pregnancy and birth control are key issues for Republican party leadership. It is therefore newsworthy, and a legitimate issue and it speaks to the character of Palin.

I don't care that her daughter is pregnant and not married, I care that in some ways the right wing has glorified this in an attempt to show that Sara and Todd are just another typical American family.I don't care that she was pregnant before she was married, I care that she pretends to know what's best for the entire country but was obviously too busy to know what was going on in her own daughters life. We have the right to know if Palin practices what she preaches

Regarding Obama and his brother -- can you honestly say that you know Obama "doesn't give a shit" about his brother? Even if this is true, how is this relevant to how he might lead our country? Obama's brother is not his dependent. Obama is not trying to legislate how people live in other countries like the Right is trying to legislate OUR sex lives.

Regarding the "Truth Behind Troopergate: Taser a 10 Year Old Kid Lately?" story -- I am not going to comment until you provide more sources other than the writings on some blog -- I'm too lazy to look myself.

[eponym]

I suppose CNN is a reliable enough source for you...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/...per/index.html

And in your last post you assume a lot. First, that a pro-life family is/should be ashamed for their teen daughter's pregnancy; as if it's in anyway uncommon, especially in rural, conservative parts of the country. You're projecting the exact kind of judgmentality you presume to deplore, and overlooking the fact the hypocrisy runs both ways...Palin didn't know what was going on with her own daughter? That sounds like something an ultra-conservative 60 year-old Baptist minister would say.

And indeed Palin practices what she preaches. A woman who carries to term a child known to have developmental disabilities isn't going to sweep her teen daughter's pregnancy under the rug with an abortion. How the pregnancy could possibly affect her in a negative way with conservative constituents (or liberals) remains to be explained.

And how, btw, is the "right" trying to legislate anyone's sex life? A defense of marriage law was passed in blue-state California (a state version of the act Joe Biden, who's a "Democrat," voted "for" in 1996) and quickly struck down by a court. So, with the "right" being taken out of the equation, how exactly are politicians trying to legislate people's sex lives?

Partisanship also has nothing to do with someone's brother revealed to be living in squalor. I mentioned it originally only as an example of how pointless Troopergate is. Nevermind that George Bush has probably done more to improve George Obama's living conditions than Barack has.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-in-Kenya.html



Of their second meeting, George Obama said: "It was very brief, we spoke for just a few minutes. It was like meeting a complete stranger."

[Cheese]

No doubt that hypocrisy "runs both ways." However, in this example I am not talking about abortion. I am talking about her daughter getting pregnant while being underage and this is why I do not think Palin practices what she preaches.

Shouldn't a good conservative leader be ashamed that her daughter is having underage sex when she denounces it herself? Shouldn't a good conservative leader be aware of how her daughter is spending time with her boyfriend? Shouldn't a good conservative leader have sat down with her daughter and educated her on abstinence until marriage? Especially while being underage???? So much for family values! Both Palin and McCain support abstinence as the only form of sexual education. They are legislating our sex lives by forcing anti-choice and anti-birth control.

The beauty of the liberal view is that government has no place in legislating morality or the sex lives of individuals or the choices that people make with their bodies! The reality is that most of these very conservative people are having sex and having abortions (not in this particular instance) and are enjoying having sex!

Regarding family relationships -- I would think the fact that McCain was sleeping with Cindy while still married is a bit more relevant to his character than the relationship between two HALF brothers who have essentially not known each other their entire lives .

[eponym]

Which "liberal" leaders, exactly, are "pro" underrage sex?

As for your other examples:

Shouldn't a good [liberal] leader be aware of how her daughter is spending time with her boyfriend? Shouldn't a good [liberal] leader have sat down with her daughter and educated her on abstinence until marriage?

I was unaware good parenting was the sole responsibility of Republicans. If that's true, why would/should any parent vote for a liberal?

So, if what you're saying is true, liberals are "for" underrage teens having sex while conservatives are "against" it. According to your logic, this means Palin, as a conservative, should be "ashamed" her daughter became pregnant; not because "you" would be ashamed if it were your daughter...no...because, as a pro-life Republican who's against handing out rubbers in public schools, you think Palin "should" be ashamed.

There is a gap in logic here.

Why give out rubbers in public schools? Because, liberals say, teens have sex anyway...it's going to happen no matter what, so why not give them a way to prevent pregnancy? Why not safe, affordable drugs too? Kids are going to experiment with drugs, no matter what (right?) so why not offer them a safe substance and secure environment in which to do it?

Everyone, I think it can be agreed, would prefer their children didn't have underrage sex. Just like everyone would prefer not to discover they had a brother living in abject poverty. It's what you do about it after it happens that matters.

(this is why so many Democrats lose elections btw: pointing fingers instead of offering opinions on solutions)

So, Palin finds out her daughter is pregnant. What does she do? Disown her daughter? Abort the child? No, of course not. She simply accepts that she has a new family member and moves on. What does Obama do "after" discovering he has a half-brother living in poverty? Talks to him briefly and then goes back home to America.

According to you, this is perfectly acceptable behavior for a liberal. What if he was a conservative though? Would Obama have to be "ashamed?"

The most egregious part of that post was your quote, "The beauty of the liberal view is that government has no place in legislating morality or the sex lives of individuals or the choices that people make with their bodies!"

Really? Was the mayor of San Francisco not "legislating Morality" by legalizing (against the wishes of state voters) gay marriage? Are stem-cell advocacy groups/abortion rights groups not "legislating" morality by qualifying human life? If I have a 15 year-old daughter, according to liberals, I have no right to be informed if she seeks to have an abortion, nor do I have any right to prevent the doctors from profiting off of stem-cells harvested from my late grandchild. If that's not legislating "choice" and "morality," I don't know what is.

[Cheese]

Ep,

I do not know of any "liberal" leaders who are pro underage sex. Ep, I am not following you. Perhaps I am tired and should not be responding after a long day of work. How are you getting at your interpretations? Good parenting is definitely not the sole responsibility of Republicans. It is however, a very relevant issue when the Right plants a flag as the party of family values and the VP candidate's own daughter had underage sex out of wedlock. How does this provide a good example of the family values that the Republican party is going to bestow upon all of us? Obviously, Palin's abstinence education worked so well...good thing we are not making rubbers available because kids are not going to have sex. No, lets just close our eyes and pretend that if we say the words "abstinence" three times, there will be no sex, STDs or pregnancy.

Again, you keep going back to the issue regarding his brother -- can you please tell me how his HALF brother that he not known his whole life plays any relevancy here???? This is quite the stretch. And, how is this more relevant than McCain breaking the sacred oath with his ex-wife and cheating with cindy? How is this more relevant than the fact we have a potential VP candidate who abused authority and also wants to make her own interpretation of the constitution? How is this more relevant than the fact that this person might take the highest office of the land if McCain is elected and something happened to him, though she will not answer questions outside of a controlled setting? I guess there is not much else that could be used to attack Obama's character other than trying to associate him with a terrorist, so this does make sense.

I think Palin handled the situation with her daughter after finding out about the pregnancy as well as can be...that is not the issue. The issue at hand is why did she get pregnant in the first place??? How could you possibly draw a comparison to how she handled that situation and the way Obama handled a NON-situation (he is not obligated to have anything to do with his brother, again, his brother is not his dependent -- there is no comparison here ) with his HALF brother who he has not know his entire life???? Are you some type of Socialist suggesting that some type of welfare be distributed by Obama to move his brother into a bigger hut????

As to your final point regarding "legislating Morality," I never brought up "morality." I talked about legislating our sex lives -- making rubbers available and the choice to decide what to do with our bodies.

[eponym]

Obviously you didn't read the link I provided: Obama first met his brother when he was 5 years-old and even mentions him in his book. If I had a half-brother I'd known of since I was 5, I'd at LEAST be sending him money all the time.

And your argument regarding Palin's daughter "setting a example"...is that really what politicians are supposed to do? Do you see the American populace as a bunch of children voting for the best mommy and/or daddy? Character concerns are one thing and Palin's character is intact despite Troopergate (you seemed to ignore the little fact the trooper tasered her 10 year-old nephew) and despite her teen daughter's pregnancy. You're better off focusing on your new revelation: McCain cheated on his first wife.

So let's look at that. While "separated" from his first wife, McCain began a romantic relationship with the woman who would become his second wife. How could any real liberal find a character flaw in that? I even understand how the idea of someone being married more than once would seem highly inappropriate to some conservatives...liberals though? Isn't "hooking up" with a new woman while separated from your last wife a hip, liberal kinda thing to do?

It would be like me saying I don't like Obama because he's not a devought enough Christian, even though I'm not Christian. Likewise, if Palin's daughter becoming pregnant is repugnant to evangelicals, let them give her shit about it.

And you did indeed bring up morality:

"The beauty of the liberal view is that government has no place in legislating morality or the sex lives of individuals or the choices that people make with their bodies!"

Finally, if liberals don't give a shit about about family values, morals etc (at least as much as conservatives do)...then why is this guy's political career over?



The chick on the left has cancer!

[Cheese]

I did glance through the article -- I thought it mentioned that he met his HALF brother twice. This is so silly because I keep asking you how this is even relevant and you have yet to provide any rationale. I do not think I will exert any more keystroke energy on this one.

Regarding Palin's daughter, I could give a shit less about her underage pregnancy, as stated earlier. However, for the last time, when you have someone claiming to be of strong ethics and family values (Palin) and there is evidence that directly challenges this...I think we have gone in circles on this one enough also...you keep avoiding the main points I have made multiple times regarding her lack of ethics and demonstrated family values. There could be a video of her using a coat hanger to abort her daughter's fetus and you would find a way to spin it...

The trooper tasering her 10-year old nephew would be fucked up if true. I do not feel like reading up on it. However, lets assume it is true. Why did she not go through the proper legal channels? Surely this person would be disciplined and fired. INSTEAD, she just does whatever the fuck she wants and ABUSES HER POWER. This has been my point from the beginning. Palin is an uneducated and ignorant person who does not know what she does not know and does whatever the fuck she wants. This does not bode well when she has already stated she has her own interpretation of the Constitution. This is sounding a lot like W. How could anyone in their right (no pun intended) mind get behind someone like this? You can not honestly even say you know much about her because she will not answer questions! In a dark and twisted way I am kind of hoping for a McCain and Palin victory. What the hell, we have already gone through enormous damage to our economy, security and position as a superpower over the last 8-yrs, why not see if we can finish the job with Dumb and Dumberer. How far can we take it.
Sure I might have to stock up on rations and bullets, though I might be able to finally afford that house I have been eyeballing.

There is really only one reason to support her and that is because she is an empty vessel that can not think for herself and will do whatever the Republican party asks of her. Oh yeah, and she has tits and doesn't look like Hillary.

Lol - regarding your interpretation of "hooking up." Again, you are missing the point or just ignoring it. I could give a shit less about McCain cheating on his wife or him calling her a "cunt." It is a challenge to the supposed family values they are trying to instill on everyone else.

Speaking of cancer, McCain is old and has had it multiple times. Nevermind, Palin will be able to bring a witch doctor into the White House to heal him.

[eponym]

I see...so you "perused" that article about Obama's half brother living in Kenya on $1 a month. OK. And you fail to see how it's "relevant" to Obama's character.

Let me explain.

Obama has made millions from his book sales and no-doubt gives large, tax-deductible donations to charity. Meanwhile, a $1 check mailed every month to his HALF brother living in poverty (which he hasn't done) would constitute a 100% increase in his brother's standard of living. It speaks to Obama's character because the man is of blood relation.

You also "do not feel like reading" an interview in which the trooper himself admits to tasering Palin's nephew. Palin, if the reports she pressured Monegan to fire Wooten are true, DID go through the proper channels. You just wrote yourself "Surely this person would be disciplined and fired."

Surely? Perhaps, if the "safety commissioner" failed to discipline Wooten, "surely" someone like the governor would be not only entitled but required to fire such a person.

And to take an almost decade old ad-phrase like "family values," turn it against the party it's identified with, somehow manage to pretend Democrats don't pimp their own "family values" at every possible moment, and then apply it to someone like Sarah Palin, is simply silly to say the least.


And this image isn't intended for you Cheese...it's intended for McBain

[img]http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6366/******ed8oi5.jpg[/img]

[Cheese]

I still disagree with regards to how his brother is relevant in this discussion. They have seen each other twice in their whole lives and we have no knowledge of the backstory -- there could be some deep hatred between them because his brother might have teased him as a child, played with his butt-hole or raped his girlfriend. His bro is not his dependent. Even if we are to assume that none of this occurred, what exactly is the conclusion that you are drawing here? That Obama is not a socialist? That he does not believe in handing out welfare? Perhaps he is your candidate afterall...

Back to Troopergate -- are you familiar with the trooper union and personnel commission in Alaska? Are you sure she exhausted all of the direct options prior to abusing her power to get him fired? Why did she have to get her hubby involved?

Regarding family values -- the Democrats do not claim ownership of this title anywhere as much as the right. I acknowledge that your example of Edwards was funny, however I fail to see how it is relevant. He is not running for president. I am guessing his political career is over. Regardless, this is all about taking what the candidates try to state as fact and piercing that veil to show otherwise...

[eponym]

I see!

We have no knowledge of the backstory regarding Obama and his brother (except for Obama's description of him as "beautiful" in his best-selling book), who lives in an African shanty town, and we also don't have all the facts about Palin "exhausting all direct options" before recommending the guy who admittedly tasered her 11 year-old nephew was fired.

So, what happened to your assertion that Palin tried to fire the guy for personal reasons? Now it's all about first "exhausting all options?" While your tune has changed, the song you're trying to sing hasn't.

Best of all, you seem to claim that Democrats somehow concede to Republicans on the issue of family responsibility. I suppose that explains how it might be considered "welfare" to help out a family member living in third world conditions.

[eponym]

"There was quiet upon the land; the dark scrub chirped quietly in cricket's echos...nothing to confront"




















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This is Ryan McBain & Cheese






























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No, Seriously

[Cheese]

Your rationales are completely laughable.

Does a description of "beautiful" mean that two people know anything about one another? Does a description of "beautiful" mean that two people are on speaking terms? Do you have all the facts regarding whether Palin went through the proper channels before abusing her power??? Palin was clearly trying to fire the guy for personal reasons. The point that you are again missing or refusing to acknowledge is that she should have gone through the proper channels either way and not abused her power. My song, my friend has not changed. Take a step back from the kool aid, as your pal O'Reilly might say. It has become pretty clear that you are only trying to make something that has no relevancy in anything seem to relevant because you have nothing else to talk about. This is very similar to the disgraceful campaign being run by the right. Rather than taking on the issues, they spend their time talking about Obama's association with a terrorist and Palin refuses to answer questions. You talk about a brother he has met twice. You must make the conservative base proud. It seems that you too have become so confused and frustrated that you are now attempting to mock me.